and so they are back, they are going back to where grover norquist wants them to be because they are outraged because they feel they have been insulted is, that this is not a negotiation t a war. i think what had yesterday from the administration was a bit of negotiation incompetence because they pushed us, the psychological process the republicans were going through, which they have to go through has to be has been pushed way back. >> where do you think we are. >> i'm not quite clear as dire in my assessment as david. first of all, david is absolutely right. the president did not run on big ideas or grand agenda but he did relentlessly endlessly emphasize that he was committed to raising taxes and returning to the prebush tax cut rate of the clinton era. i think that we are in a little bit of a chest bumping stage. the process -- >> you call it chest bunch, he called it stick in the eyewitnesses i think what we're seeing, i think you see some republicans we're not going to do a thing, we're just going do it with closing exemptions or eliminates exemptions and that is what mitt romne